Telnet Gets Stubborn Sony Camera Under Control (hackaday.com) 45
Hackaday writes
According to [Venn Stone], technical producer over at Linux GameCast, the Sony a5000 is still a solid option for those looking to shoot 1080p video despite being released back in 2014. But while the camera is lightweight and affordable, it does have some annoying quirks — namely an overlay on the HDMI output (as seen in the image above) that can't be turned off using the camera's normal configuration menu. But as it so happens, using some open source tools and the venerable telnet, you can actually log into the camera's operating system and fiddle with its settings directly.
A grassroots tool for unlocking Sony cameras apparently also unlocks developer options — including a telnet server on its WiFi interface. (There's a video of the whole procedure on Linux Gamecast Weekly's web site.)
Venn Stone (the podcast's technical producer/engineer) is apparently also a long-time Slashdot reader — and also describes himself on the podcast as "not a fan of articial software limitations."
And he calls this telnet-enabled tweak "the most hack-y thing I've done in recent memory" — even creating a playlist of 1990s hacker music to more fully enjoy the moment.
A grassroots tool for unlocking Sony cameras apparently also unlocks developer options — including a telnet server on its WiFi interface. (There's a video of the whole procedure on Linux Gamecast Weekly's web site.)
Venn Stone (the podcast's technical producer/engineer) is apparently also a long-time Slashdot reader — and also describes himself on the podcast as "not a fan of articial software limitations."
And he calls this telnet-enabled tweak "the most hack-y thing I've done in recent memory" — even creating a playlist of 1990s hacker music to more fully enjoy the moment.
That is pretty awesome (Score:4, Insightful)
I have to say I wish you could telnet into every electric device - camera, car, fridge, whatever - and directly interact with the OS for devices and tweak low level settings. What an awesome world that would be.
Re: That is pretty awesome (Score:2)
Camera with a Wifi interface sounds fun. It's like you're teasing to be hacked.
Re: That is pretty awesome (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Camera with a Wifi interface sounds fun. It's like you're teasing to be hacked.
Exactly my thought.
Re: (Score:3)
Tons of devices still have RS-232 ports for factory debugging. Printers, TVs, probably even those stupid refrigerators. Of course don’t expect to find a labeled port. You’ll be probing headers or vias with a scope when when it powers up.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Good to know (even if it is mostly TTL ports as others mentioned in followups). Someday will have to get back into doing lower level hardware stuff again...
They said it was from 2014 in the sumary, when (Score:2)
you could actually own something.
Agreed (Score:2)
Having whatever that is with two Halloween buckets on the screen all the time would be annoying.
Now watch SONY issue a DMCA takedown notice (Score:2, Funny)
The real question (Score:4, Insightful)
Is why so much firmware is so badly designed.
Re: (Score:3)
Any number of reasons I imagine.
(1) Fewer skilled firmware/low-level developers vs UI/UX/App/web developers;
(2) Developers using the firmware interface don't aren't going to fuzz/test/hammer on the system the same way;
(3) Less allocation of resources to the firmware development than the App / hardware interface / etc; or
(4) Outsourced completely from the rest of the development process?
etc.
It's not really irrational. I have a a large number of internal company programs that are used by me or maybe 2-3 other
Re: The real question (Score:3)
In this specific case I have to imagine it's a purposeful gimping of the HDMI output to push people needing it into Sony's more professional gear ecosystem.
It's easy to forget Sony consumer division is practically a different company from it's broadcast and cinema division.
Re: The real question (Score:3)
It's a recent thing that camera have clean HDMI feed. For the longest time the camera HDMI feed was low quality and just there to monitor and frame the shot.
Often the port wasn't designed to operate constantly; it would o reheat the camera.
It is a recent thing to use HDMI out or usb out as a webcam on sale cameras. This really started in the era of twitch. Before people would still record large video files and edit them.
Come On!!! (Score:2)
From your ID I find it hard to believe you can even ask that. If you haven't stolen the ID you should have been around during all the shit Sony has pulled, screwing over their own customers. This isn't bad design, that would imply something haphazard. It isn't. You ought to know by this time that it is designed this way on purpose. Sony does everything they can to make it impossible to do anything with their stuff that people who buy other products can do. They lock everything down thinking they can make mo
Re: (Score:2)
I know about Sony, including the criminal stuff they got away with. I was asking in general. This problem is very much not limited to Sony.
Japanese Cameras-reverse midas touch in software (Score:5, Interesting)
Is why so much firmware is so badly designed.
Sony, Canon, Nikon: superlative hardware...SHIT software. Cameras are so far behind phones from 10 years ago, software-wise. In fact, they're behind every American-designed device I've ever seen. I admire these Japanese companies for their hardware quality and capabilities. The lenses are amazing. The cameras have great sensors, but things you take for granted in phones still don't appear on any expensive cameras, TMK, including my new $2,500 Canon R6. For example, Canon JUST got USB-charging. Seriously!!! You had to take a battery charger with you everwhere you go until recent models. They still don't have cloud storage options that work at all, let alone seamlessly...TMK, Nikon and Sony don't either. You know how you take a picture on your phone, wait a few minutes, and you can view it anywhere?...yeah, that's just a dream with real cameras.
Speed-lights?...those flashes you need if you're a serious photographer who works indoors...they JUST started offering models that don't require AA batteries. So yeah, $600 flash...needs AA batteries.
The menus? They look like they're from the 80s or 90s...the built-in software to update the firmware or edit photos?...same...looks very late 90s. They're still far behind what HP...of all low-quality companies...as 10 years ago with their laser printer configuration menus and software.
Creature comforts and UX?...OK, I can live with bad menus...but there's little to no computational photography going on. Your phone? It does all sorts of tricks with software, including multi-exposure that your camera has the power to do...especially the expensive ones...but doesn't. It's almost like no one in Japan takes software seriously. I know they have the engineering talent. I see it in the amazing video games they make...plus these cameras are engineering marvels...but just basic software is terrible and so far behind where Apple and Google were 10 years ago.
Real cameras still take much better pictures...anyone who says their phone takes good pictures has never looked at them on a decent monitor. However, some of the demise of the camera market is that they've made it inconvenient to work with. No one who isn't paid to do this wants to pull out and SD card or plug in their camera to a computer. Sony, Nikon, and Canon could easily put some work into their software to integrate it with Google/Apple photos, Dropbox, OneDrive, or even create their own services...so that your powerful camera could upload the photos to the cloud. They could partner with Adobe or someone else to create a cloud photo editing service that doesn't suck. They could do the same tricks that Google and Apple do with computational photography, like HDR and multi-exposure to get even better pictures...if the user wants to enable them.
I think had the camera makers tried to compete with smart phones instead of just competing with each other, a lot more consumers would be using real cameras. The quality is far above what your most expensive phone can do...most casual users don't mind carrying around a camera...but the last step...editing and uploading photos is a PAIN and deters users. I still have like a month's worth of pictures I still haven't gotten around to downloading and editing and I am a huge photography enthusiast.
I don't know if it's a Japanese thing or a Sony/Canon/Nikon/Tamron/Sigma thing...but yeah...their software suuuuucks.
Re:Japanese Cameras-reverse midas touch in softwar (Score:5, Insightful)
$600 flash...needs AA batteries
Pros/prosumers consider this a feature. All the accessories in your bag run on AA batteries, so you buy a couple bricks of Eneloops and a charger, and you're set.
The alternative is proprietary packs and chargers for each device, or worse, devices with built in batteries which you can't swap when they die in the field, and which require surgery to swap when they wear out in a few years.
I have no objection to them offering Li-ion options as well for more casual users, but I suspect there just isn't as much demand for it.
all sorts of tricks with software, including multi-exposure
Pros/prosumers don't work this way. They use exposure bracketing to take a sequence of RAW photos, and then do this kind of processing on their PC after the shoot. Sure, it's "just another feature" but these cameras already have huge menus of features intended for advanced users - who generally want more manual control over everything, and definitely don't want more magic automated processing.
Re: (Score:3)
$600 flash...needs AA batteries
Pros/prosumers consider this a feature. All the accessories in your bag run on AA batteries, so you buy a couple bricks of Eneloops and a charger, and you're set.
The alternative is proprietary packs and chargers for each device, or worse, devices with built in batteries which you can't swap when they die in the field, and which require surgery to swap when they wear out in a few years.
I have no objection to them offering Li-ion options as well for more casual users, but I suspect there just isn't as much demand for it.
Or they could have just had flashes use LP-E6Ns just like the camera does. Your logic doesn't really make sense. If that were the case, they'd demand AA for the camera body as well. Eneloops are the best of the AA batteries and they're unreliable garbage. A hot-swappable battery you can charge from the hotshoe OR charger would be optimal. If an American big tech company made cameras, I bet a feature of that nature would be on there already. Another example is power tools. All serious power tools have
Re: (Score:3)
I think had the camera makers tried to compete with smart phones instead of just competing with each other, a lot more consumers would be using real cameras. The quality is far above what your most expensive phone can do...most casual users don't mind carrying around a camera...but the last step...editing and uploading photos is a PAIN and deters users.
Respectfully, I disagree.
Phones do what cameras can't do. No SLR is going to fit into a pocket or make spontaneous photos possible. You're right about photo quality being difference when shown on solid monitors...but the most common thing 99.99999% of photos will be shown on is a phone screen, after being shared on Instagram or via iMessage or something to that effect.
SLRs keep their same storage-and-download options because their workflow is fundamentally different. Camera phones try to correct for imperfe
By your logic, all food will be microwaved (Score:3)
I think had the camera makers tried to compete with smart phones instead of just competing with each other, a lot more consumers would be using real cameras. The quality is far above what your most expensive phone can do...most casual users don't mind carrying around a camera...but the last step...editing and uploading photos is a PAIN and deters users.
Respectfully, I disagree.
Phones do what cameras can't do. No SLR is going to fit into a pocket or make spontaneous photos possible.
Respectfully agree to disagree. You're correct about size, but not about the market...although SLRs are becoming a relic compared to MILC cameras, no real camera will be as small as a phone. Even pros and enthusiasts take a lot of photos with their phones. However, most people want SOME photos to look nice.
There are dozens of examples. Microwaves sacrifice food quality for convenience. Nearly every house has an oven, stove, and microwave.
Nearly every middle-class family wants to take a few nice
Re: (Score:3)
I would mention cameras which don't just mount as an external drive when you connect them to the PC. Instead, requiring a windows vista-only app which insists on sorting and organizing your photos before you can see a single damn one of 'em.
Re: Japanese Cameras-reverse midas touch in softwa (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Speed-lights?...those flashes you need if you're a serious photographer who works indoors...they JUST started offering models that don't require AA batteries. So yeah, $600 flash...needs AA batteries.
Which will be ignored by professionals. If you're out on a job and you get stuck you can always duck into the corner shop and have pre-charged power ready to go. It's somewhat harder to buy a dedicated lithium battery custom designed for your device, especially if you're in a foreign country.
There's a reason battery grips for several cameras exist that use AAA batteries. In some cases even first party ones. Heck my ancient D200 came with a AAA adapter for it's Lithium battery grip.
Professionals have to deal with that nonsense (Score:2)
Speed-lights?...those flashes you need if you're a serious photographer who works indoors...they JUST started offering models that don't require AA batteries. So yeah, $600 flash...needs AA batteries.
Which will be ignored by professionals. If you're out on a job and you get stuck you can always duck into the corner shop and have pre-charged power ready to go. It's somewhat harder to buy a dedicated lithium battery custom designed for your device, especially if you're in a foreign country.
There's a reason battery grips for several cameras exist that use AAA batteries. In some cases even first party ones. Heck my ancient D200 came with a AAA adapter for it's Lithium battery grip.
Not the point...a professional is a captive audience. They have no choice. A consumer has a choice to not use a real camera. A pro is not going to show up to a wedding with an iPhone. If you want to service the pro-only market, which the expensive models do...you'll have far lower sales, far lower R&D budget, etc. All those folks buying the $1000 camera bundles at CostCo really contribute to Canon/Nikon's bottom line and allow them to pour more money into innovation as well as sell lenses for a low
Re: (Score:3)
Is why so much firmware is so badly designed.
It's not badly designed. It's designed exactly as specified in a way to maximise sales of ... more expensive devices.
It's a practice so common that people have written whole custom camera firmwares to enable high end features on more budget cameras. https://magiclantern.fm/ [magiclantern.fm]
Re: (Score:2)
Why is almost everything so badly designed? Economics- pressure to get things out the door, ready or not.
Re: (Score:2)
It's kinda unlikely that you're gonna try to access your camera across the internet, so the chance of eavesdropping on the conversation is rather low.
Telnet is not bad, all it is is not encrypted. As long as this does not matter, what's the problem?
as seen in the image above (Score:3)
They're not even pretending anymore.
Re: (Score:2)
Some people see a picture of an HDMI overlay, others only see a rabbit.
Try relaxing your eyes and letting them cross naturally. The important thing is to not give up!
Re: (Score:2)
Yes! Six foot! White! Goes by the name of Harvey! You see him too?
Telnet and not SSH? (Score:3)
Re:Telnet and not SSH? (Score:4, Informative)
Am I the only one scared that a random device from 2014 still has telnet instead of SSH?
It doesn't have telnet. Telnet is a function of OpenMemories:Tweak, a custom application which the user installed on the camera via the USB connection, and even after installing it it was off by default.
So why are you scared, and for a service that is only used for debug purposes and manually enabled, what benefit does SSH bring? What next, you complain that some devices still have a serial communications interface for debugging rather than putting everything in the cloud?
Re: (Score:1)
Am I the only one scared that a random device from 2014 still has telnet instead of SSH?
The original firmware without remote access is only 40 MB.
There is only 64 MB of flash for a replacement firmware to fit into.
The good news is that this alternative firmware is open source.
If you want SSH added in there so badly, you are free to try and squeeze an SSH server into the couple of megs available.
Personally, I'm scared that you think this is a good idea to do at the factory instead of with alternative firmware.
Why on earth do you think it is a good idea to have remote access into a camera manu06
Re: (Score:2)
Why on earth do you think it is a good idea to have remote access into a camera manu0601?!?!
I don't
Re: (Score:2)
In an embedded device that has a near-zero chance to be used in an environment where encryption matters? That's neither scary nor surprising.
SSH is much, but it certainly is not lightweight. Sure, its weight doesn't matter on a multicore system with 64gigs of ram and more storage than you can fill, now try again with an embedded system that has a few MBs of ram (if that), a few more MBs of storage and a single-core CPU running at 200MHz.
Re: (Score:2)
Listen children... The real hack was running DOOM (Score:2)
One does not simply telnet into Mordor (Score:2)
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/21/8... [pinimg.com]