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Video Collin Graver and his Wooden Bicycle (Video) 71

Posted by Roblimo from the we'll-stick-to-our-metal-bikes-for-the-moment-thank-you dept.
Video no longer available.
This is not a practical bike. "Even on smooth pavement, your vision goes blurry because you're vibrating so hard," Collin said to an Atlanta Journal-Constitution reporter back in 2012 when he was only 15 -- and already building wooden bicycles. Collin's wooden bikes are far from the first ones. Wikipedia says, "The first bicycles recorded, known variously as velocipedes, dandy horses, or hobby horses, were constructed from wood, starting in 1817." And not all wooden bicycles made today are as crude as Collin's. A Portland (OR) company called Renovo makes competition-quality hardwood bicycle frames -- for as little as $2200, and a bunch more for a complete bike with all its hardware fitted and ready to roll.

Of course, while it might be sensible to buy a Renovo product if you want a wood-framed bike to Race Across America, you won't improve your woodworking skills the way Collin's projects have improved his to the point where he's made a nice-looking pair of wood-framed sunglasses described in his WOOD YOU? SHOULD YOU? blog. (Alternate Video Link)

Collin: This is my wooden bike version 2. The first bike that I built was out of really really bad quality plywood and the reason for this one is to build a better one.

Tim: That’s kind of a, that’s an incomplete version when it comes to building a wooden bike. How fast can this go? What are your design parameters? What did you think of when you set out to make a wooden bike?

Collin: Well, the biggest thing was just making it all wood. That was the biggest challenge whatsoever. And actually I kind of focused on reducing weight. The top speed that I can achieve with this guy gear wise is maybe around 15 miles an hour but it is really scary to ride above 5 mph. So a nice fast walker, light jogger will really go about as fast as this bike will ever go.

Tim: Can you talk about the components you built?

Collin: Okay. So we have a wear surface it is just the soft pine it is the tire, and all the actuals built here, in the crankshaft, other wheel, and on the chain which is this big wheel here, we have Lignum Vitae bearings which is a naturally oily wood, so it kind of self-lubricates. I designed all the gears in a CAD program and then used a CNC router to cut them out.

Tim: How many hours have you put into making this?

Collin: Probably around 120, but that doesn’t include the learning curve with CAD.

Tim: Now the actual geometry of the bike, to get things like your seat, your handlebars, where the pedals are, how did you come up with a different?

Collin: Yeah, so basically I measured on my mountain bike, from the handlebars to the seats and the pedals and maintained that triangle throughout the bike. However, this bike is higher than a mountain bike so I raised the whole thing up about 2” and the front wheel is further in on this bike.

Tim: Can we follow the application of force here from your pedal, you have a

Collin: Okay, so from the pedal there is this circle with the sides cut off that transfers force into the crankshaft. The crankshaft run through a Lignum Vitae bearing, and then into this main crank gear here. The crank gear is held to the crankshaft with a shoe pin.

Tim: Is that the only nonmetal part of the bike?

Collin: That is the only non-wood part.

Tim: Non-wood, right, sorry.

Collin: Yeah, and it is supposed to be wood, I just haven’t gotten around upgrading it. Then we go into the chain which is these two gears with actual dowels in them.

Tim: Those dowels look like it is a lot of work, if that is hand work.

Collin: It is hand work. I had to hammer 164 individual dowels into these. It took several hours. And then from this large chain, we have a small sprocket down here on the wheel which is just bolted to the wheel and that gives the power to the road.

Tim: What is your motivation?

Collin: Fun mostly.

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Collin Graver and his Wooden Bicycle (Video) More

Collin Graver and his Wooden Bicycle (Video)

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  • Wooden bikes are cool (Score:4, Interesting)

    by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Tuesday November 18, 2014 @05:49PM (#48414047) Journal

    I've also seen bamboo framed ones where jsut the tubes are bamboo. They're much like normal biles otherwise and I presume exactly as comfortable. There's at least one I've read about which is 100% wood. Getting the bearings and power transmission were apparently the harddest bits.

    Can't find a link though.

    Anyway props to this guy for making bikes out of wood.

    • "They're much like normal biles otherwise and I presume exactly as comfortable."

      Comfort comes almost entirely from the tire size and pressure relative to rider weight and road conditions. The frame is largely irrelevant, at least for anything made in the last few decades by any half-competent company.

      "Getting the bearings and power transmission were apparently the harddest bits."

      Getting alignment on these items is the hardest bit. Bicycles require an incredible degree of proper alignment of a couple of key


      • Getting alignment on these items is the hardest bit. Bicycles require an incredible degree of proper alignment of a couple of key components in order for things to work right, mostly shifting, but also handling-wise.

        I think on the wooden bilke the biger problem was doing it at all: getting a good sliding bearing out of wood is really hard. You can't have roller bearings and you can't precision ream a journal to the same degree because of the grain. Even the best wood is vastly softer than the carbon steel t

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Monoman ( 8745 )

          Glue/epoxy in a sleeve with a rough outer face to bond to the wood and then the races and bearings?

      • Interestingly there was at least one bicycle design which claimed that frame shape could influence comfort:

        http://gajitz.com/riding-a-rou... [gajitz.com]

    • I've been to Calfee and seen the best-known bike. Yes, the tubes are just bamboo. It's just that simple.

      You should see how carbon fiber bike frames are prototyped. Cut and scallop your CF tubing, epoxy the tubes together into a frame shape, put it into a clamp and then wrap the joints with CF twine while brushing on the resin. When done, stick it in the oven and cook it. When it comes out you take a die grinder to the places where the tubes come together and just smooth it out and make it pretty, done and d

  • This is not a practical bike. "Even on smooth pavement, your vision goes blurry because you're vibrating so hard," Collin said to an Atlanta Journal-Constitution reporter back in 2012 when he was only 15 -- and already building wooden bicycles. Collin's wooden bikes are far from the first ones. Wikipedia says, "The first bicycles recorded, known variously as velocipedes, dandy horses, or hobby horses, were constructed from wood, starting in 1817."

    You know what else those early bicycles were called? "Bones [wikipedia.org]

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by koan ( 80826 )

      A hipster nerd would...

      Nerdster.

    • They were boneshakers because they didn't have pneumatic tires. This is not true of a modern bicycle, and we also have far more understanding of mechanical systems and materials, including wood, now.

      It is a widely perpetuated myth, mostly by bicycle frame makers who are attempting to get you to spend gobs of money on special designs, frame materials, etc that are "vertically stiff and horizontally compliant" (this phrase is now such marketing cliche it's mocked a lot)...that road bicycle suspension happens

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Bullshit. I'm a former competitive cyclist (road and cross), and now I just ride my bike for fun, but a great deal of the suspension is in your frame. That said, you don't need to spend a gajillion dollars on the latest fancy marketing fad. My favorite bike has a steel IF Crown Jewel frame, and I've been riding the same bike for over a decade now (because I'm in love with the damn thing, it's brilliantly balanced and nearly indestructible despite my treating it like a cross bike. kevlar tires are a big win.

        • kevlar tires are a big win

          Things have certainly moved on from when I was a kid, although quite how dangerous a school journey would have to be to necessitate bulletproof bike tyres I can't quite imagine.

    • Why would a nerd be interested in this news?

      Because a 100% wood bicycle is a very hard thing to do because wood is just not very good at things like bearings. That makes it as much an interesting bit of hacking as a 6502 implemented in Minecraft.

      I mean Jesus I know people have always complained about the quality of stories and dupes, but this is a completely nerdy topic even if it's not 100% pure comuter nerdery.

      • Actually, wood can be quite good at bearings --- one just has to use the correct sort of wood. Lignum vitae was used for the bearings for steam paddle boats and submarines and is now being used for bearings in hydroelectric plants:

        http://www.core77.com/blog/mat... [core77.com]

  • Is what "I build wooden bikes" sounds like.

  • A long and current history of wooden bikes (Score:5, Informative)

    by smellsofbikes ( 890263 ) on Tuesday November 18, 2014 @07:22PM (#48414123) Journal

    There has never been a time when wooden bikes weren't being made. As late as the 1930's, people were making bikes with wooden compression-type spokes, rather than steel tension-type spokes, and currently there are piles of amazing wooden bikes being made.
    This Owen was used as a triathalon bike, with some very respectable finishes (race finishes, not varnish finishes): https://www.flickr.com/photos/... [flickr.com]
    Satoshi Sano has been building spectacular bikes using traditional Japanese boatbuilding techniques: https://www.flickr.com/photos/... [flickr.com]
    and
    http://sanomagic.world.coocan.... [coocan.jp]
    Note internal cabling in steam-bent frame elements, and a wooden seat on a steam-bent seatpost.
    And since bamboo is wood, there are at least a dozen companies using bamboo as the primary frame material.
    Calfee started it, as far as I can tell:
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/... [flickr.com]

    But there are many others, like Panda and Boo.
    Bamboosera makes a great Cannondale-shock mountain bike:
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/... [flickr.com]
    and Hero Bikes make work and utility bikes:
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/... [flickr.com]

    Hero (and at least two other companies) go so far as to offer classes, where over a weekend you start out by harvesting bamboo, and end up making a complete ready-to-build-up frameset.
    http://www.herobike.org/collec... [herobike.org]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gl4ss ( 559668 )

      well, but those people are sensible enough to make the bike useable by using some rubber on the wheels UNLIKE THIS GUY.

      but this project is not about practicality but just about making a dangerous to drive all wooden bike(except for the glue in the plywood??).

      I guess the editors have already gone full hipster. it's like going full retard, but to usability. and in them going full hipster they mistake that being impractical and having gears means that it's nerdy. stay tuned for some free energy videos next wee

    • Actually, bamboo is a grass, not wood at all, with far different properties. Bamboo is very fragile having an M&M-like makeup, a very thin, hard outer shell over a soft wall. Numerous bamboo bike producers have compounded that fragility by joining the tubes with rigid lugs of aluminum, steel and carbon. Calfee, who produces both bamboo and carbon bikes, learned through early failed bamboo frames that failure is guaranteed using a rigid connector with flexible tubes. He quickly switched to wrapped lugs w
  • The AJC article mentioned the weight and the rough ride. I'd guess that yet another disadvantage of a wooden bicycle, at least when sharing the road with motor vehicles, is that it's impossible to trigger a green traffic signal [pineight.com] without enough metal surface to disturb the flux in the induction loop beneath the approach to the intersection. At some intersections, even a metal bicycle has a problem with that.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by hawguy ( 1600213 )

      The AJC article mentioned the weight and the rough ride. I'd guess that yet another disadvantage of a wooden bicycle, at least when sharing the road with motor vehicles, is that it's impossible to trigger a green traffic signal [pineight.com] without enough metal surface to disturb the flux in the induction loop beneath the approach to the intersection. At some intersections, even a metal bicycle has a problem with that.

      While an all wooden bike (including wheels)might have problems tripping lights, I almost always can trip the lights with my Carbon Fiber bike with aluminum wheels, I just have to careful where I stop. I don't think an all-wooden bike (including wooden wheels) would be practical enough for much riding around town - the road vibrations noted in the article would make long rides unpleasant.

      • Even with my metal recumbent trike, position is a huge thing when tripping stop lights. This is one of the "discussed to death" topics on sites like http://www.bentrideronline.com... [bentrideronline.com]. A lot depends on the sensitivity of the loop and the circuitry it triggers, and a lot of the detectors are specifically set to be triggered only by a metal mass lots larger than a baby stroller, wheelchair or bicycle.

    • "I'd guess that yet another disadvantage of a wooden bicycle, at least when sharing the road with motor vehicles, is that it's impossible to trigger a green traffic signal without enough metal surface to disturb the flux in the induction loop beneath the approach to the intersection."

      1)Inductive loop sensors are much better than they used to be, and many can detect aluminum bike frames, metal in the wheels (almost all spokes are metal - carbon fiber spokes are very rare; many rims are still aluminum), or t

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tepples ( 727027 )

        Inductive loop sensors are much better than they used to be

        And a lot of cities lack the funds to replace old sensors with better ones. Or they intentionally turn down the sensitivity so as to reject a tractor-trailer in the adjacent lane.

        Many traffic lights now use camera-bases systems.

        I was under the impression that a lot of cities shied away from these for two reasons. One is cost; though they may be cheaper than an induction loop under certain circumstances, it's still greater than zero. Another is confusion with the red light cameras that have led to increased rear-end collisions as motorists attempt to compl

        • I have issues with traffic lights seeing me on my motorcycle. Not often admittedly but still often enough to be noticeable. It tends to be on 2 lane roads which have been subjected to heavy traffic. I'm not sure if the loops have been damaged or if it is me using a different position due to the damaged surface but they cant sense me. (Bike is a Honda CBR1000rr)

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Pope ( 17780 )

            One of the tricks I've heard for that is to put your kickstand (usually steel) down near the sensor loop. Of course, some bikes will have kill switches that are triggered by kickstand down switch, so it may be worth a test.

            • My bike will cut the ignition instantly if it is in gear and the side stand is put down. That is pretty much standard on every modern motorcycle. The only variation I have seen recently is the one that kills the ignition when you start to let the clutch out. I prefer the one that cuts as soon as you put the bike in gear as you aren't expecting the bike to move forward when it happens so you aren't shifting your weight around.

    • I'm fairly sure that here in the UK traffic lights are just on a set timing sequence.

      Is it different in the US because you have a lot more infrequently used roads that require manual triggering?
      That rather prompts the question of why you bother having lights at all at junctions where traffic is so infrequent.

  • Maybe they should publish the video on a few other sites. Unless it's a lengthy clip of a small rotating circular symbol.

  • While a piece of steel is obviosuyly much stronger than a piece of wood of the same dimensions, if we stipulate equal *weights* rather than equal dimensions, the piece of wood may be stronger. The "specific strength" (or "strength to weight ratio) of some woods like balsa are greater than most steels.

    That means that the applications of wood overlap the applications of steel somewhat. Some places where you need a little steel you can use a lot of wood and the result will be equally strong and weigh about

    • I'd take your post more seriously if you didn't make absurd generalizations like "steel is very stiff and wood is very flexible." From that alone it's obvious you understand nothing about materials.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by hey! ( 33014 )

        I'd take your post more seriously if you didn't make absurd generalizations like "steel is very stiff and wood is very flexible." From that alone it's obvious you understand nothing about materials.

        Alright then. Woods have a Young's modulus (along the grain) of around 3-12 GPa. Typical construction steels have a modulus of around 200 GPa. Therefore a steel beam will be stiffer than a wooden beam of identical dimensions. However, I do realize that *some* wooden objects will be siffer than *some* steel objects. For example an oak beam with a 10x10" cross section will be stiffer than a steel bar of the same length with a 0.25 x 0.25 inch cross section.

        There, is that pedantic enough for you? Or do I

        • Yes, it's certainly true that steel has a higher Young's Modulus.

          However, you pointed out that the specific strength is similar, so for an equal strenght and weight structure you'll either have a little steel or a lot of wood. That Young's modulus is now spread over 10x the area, which evens things up a lot.

          There's also some dimly remembered knowledge about beams where the distance of the area from the centre of bending matters so that would favour the larger beams made of wood.

          There are also some very, ver

        • You probably already know all this, but for what it's worth, Gary Klein's realization that you can build a stiff frame out of anything if you just increase the diameter enough is completely apropos for wooden bike frame design. The problem, as the Renovo guys have found, is that you need like 5" diameter tubes to get even acceptable stiffness, since stiffness rises as the third power of diameter for tubes. But at those diameters, for a competitive weight, the walls have to be like sub-millimeter in thickn

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by hey! ( 33014 )

            I certainly remember when Klein's bikes came out; he was a few years ahead of me at MIT. I don't know if the larger tubing idea was actually his; he was part of a group of students working on an aluminum frame. The relationship of diameter to stiffness had neen known for centuries; I think Euler originally worked out that the bending stiffness of a beam is proporitional to the moment of inertia of its cross section. I expect a lot of engineers realized the potential of aluminum. What stands out about Kle

          • Actually, Gary Klein's 'realization' is just simple engineering, apropos and employed by Renovo, Cannondale, Cervelo, Boeing and any other manufacturer who employs engineers and wants a torsionally stiff tubular section. The 'Renovo guys' have (actually calculated) and tested that they can easily equal the stiffness of a Cervelo S2 or Scott Elite carbon frame using a 2.5 diameter downtube (the Scott is 2.07). Your assertions about Renovo's frames are authoritative sounding, but altogether wrong. Sorry, Re

  • And not all wooden bicycles made today are as crude as Collin's.

    I'm sure you could have found a nicer way of putting that.

  • One of our Bangladeshi friend also made a bicycle by bamboo. http://www.amazingelearning.co... [amazingelearning.com]

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