"Hacker Oscarv wanted a PDP-8 mini computer" the question needs to be asked... why? This is part of humanity I just don't understand. An infinite number of useful potential projects lay before me and the thought of playing around playing with or restoring 'vintage hardware' is just opportunity cost.
I've long since stopped asking why, and just gotten on with "why not?"
Building a replica of a platform gives you the experience of doing it, the understanding of the process, familiarity with the tools you're using... and possibly some bragging rights among your fellow nerds.
Why pimp out your CPU case with neon? Why put spinners on your rims? Hell, why have cars anything other than black, which should suffice for anybody? Why play video games? Why watch TV?
None of these accomplishes anything other than filling in time or soothing your own need for something you think is cool.
To you, it's opportunity cost. To someone else, it's "why the hell not?" It's something to do they find amusing.
Compared to half the crap you see on YouTube or anywhere else with humans... I don't see this as being worse than anything else.
With all the dumb crap humans do every day, there's at least some coolness to this.
And I'm betting you can identify at least 10 things you do every week which you couldn't answer "why" if pressed on the issue.
He's snarky, but there's a point when 'additions' start to harm the machine rather than to improve it. Neon tubes with their associated high voltage and extremely high cycling rate draw a lot of power for not real benefit and introduce electromagnetic noise into the computer. Spinners on car wheels mess with the rotational and steering dynamics of the vehicle and remove one cue to other drivers as to what the vehicle is doing as they can no longer look at the wheels to see if the car is starting to pull forward or not.
There are tradeoffs between aesthetics and functionality. Sometimes the majority of the population feels that those aesthetics are worthwhile and sometimes they don't. Personally I want the indicators on my computer to actually convey something, so having a huge light behind a large transparent open panel in the side that's on just because the computer is powered on doesn't help me while individual indicators for fans and disks could. On the other hand, if I spent considerable time and skill dremelling-out a logo through the side panel, then perhaps the powerful light might actually add something to the experience.
If someone wants to reimplement some antiquated hardware for their own kicks that's fine. I've got dumb RS-232 terminals on my desks at both work and home, so I am not immune to this either. I don't expect others to find it cool either though, as there aren't that many people that grew up pre-GUI or in the BBS days in this hobby anymore, so I do it for myself, not for anyone else's approval.
I remember one of my EE classes (microprocessors class? it's been several decades) was basically "how to design and build a PDP-8 using logic gates". One of the more interesting classes I took. Building up the thing from various blocks gave good insight. So, yes, it can be valuable to "resurrect" old hardware.
"Why?" is the goto card for people who don't achieve anything.
The things you learn re-inventing the wheel can be applied in various parts of your future projects.
It's like asking why solve a math problem? Obviously, to learn how to do math for the chance that you see a problem that you DON'T have an easy answer already available. Hell, that's what an entire engineering degree is. It's not "can you solve problem X" because problem X will almost never occur in real life in an isolated environment. The p
I could commute with a Model-T. I live ten miles from work and while I usually take the freeway, I could drive on surface-streets the entire way and add no additional distance to the drive and probably only take another ten minutes to make the trip. I wouldn't even be impeding the flow of traffic either.
A Model-T would serve my driving needs 200+ days a year without any significant change to my routines. It could probably serve me another 50-100 days a year if I'm willing to take a little longer to ge
What would it cost to buy? How much maintenance would it require? Special fuels? Kind of oil? Required additives? Suspension and handling? Comfort? What would potholes do to it?
Now compare all of that to an older but still decent condition used modern car that is way easier to find and obtain.
Now why is the model T still useful?
Note.. I'm not arguing that it might not provide the owner with some form of enjoyment. I like all sorts of things that I do not consider ot be 'useful'.
You're looking at it wrong. You are trying to understand it using economics, and of course it wouldn't make sense from that standpoint. He is probably looking at it from an emotional or respect standpoint, or a desire to understand those people that came before him, and that is worth more to him.
Now go kill your gramps because frankly he's outdated and society's resources could better be spent on someone younger.
Economics is generally a terrible way to try to understand a motivation since, broken down to its roots, it has no value judgements in it. Every economic model or approach takes an outside value preference as an input.
Yeah, I almost bought a surplus PDP-11 from my college surplus about fifteen years ago. Held off because I'd have had to unplug my stove to power it, and my small apartment was not suited to having a minicomputer in it. It would have cost me less than $100 for two racks worth of equipment.
Same for me. But you could install a memory rack over the i/o rack in processor box and find a HDD controller instead of removable packet drives. It would give you an usable PDP-11 in a half-height 19-inch rack (Processor/memory, FDD and HDD in it, magtape controller). I fed my PDP-11 from a simple outlet while the electricians invented the special attachment.
Nostalga. I used to have a beer fridge sitting inside of an old S/370 system cabinet. Sure it took up 20 times the space but it was still cool to look at in the garage.
'Useful' is subjective, esp living in a society where our basic needs are so easily met (at least for the type of person who is likely posting here).
While people might wrap up their reasons in something with more authority or social support behind it, ultimately, most projects we do are 'because it is cool'.
Order and simplification are the first steps toward mastery of a subject
-- the actual enemy is the unknown.
-- Thomas Mann
Why??? (Score:0)
"Hacker Oscarv wanted a PDP-8 mini computer" the question needs to be asked... why? This is part of humanity I just don't understand. An infinite number of useful potential projects lay before me and the thought of playing around playing with or restoring 'vintage hardware' is just opportunity cost.
Re:Why??? (Score:5, Insightful)
I've long since stopped asking why, and just gotten on with "why not?"
Building a replica of a platform gives you the experience of doing it, the understanding of the process, familiarity with the tools you're using ... and possibly some bragging rights among your fellow nerds.
Why pimp out your CPU case with neon? Why put spinners on your rims? Hell, why have cars anything other than black, which should suffice for anybody? Why play video games? Why watch TV?
None of these accomplishes anything other than filling in time or soothing your own need for something you think is cool.
To you, it's opportunity cost. To someone else, it's "why the hell not?" It's something to do they find amusing.
Compared to half the crap you see on YouTube or anywhere else with humans ... I don't see this as being worse than anything else.
With all the dumb crap humans do every day, there's at least some coolness to this.
And I'm betting you can identify at least 10 things you do every week which you couldn't answer "why" if pressed on the issue.
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Snark from an anonymous coward is about as useful and purposeful as any of my examples.
Ergo, by your own logic, you are an idiot.
Re:Why??? (Score:4, Insightful)
There are tradeoffs between aesthetics and functionality. Sometimes the majority of the population feels that those aesthetics are worthwhile and sometimes they don't. Personally I want the indicators on my computer to actually convey something, so having a huge light behind a large transparent open panel in the side that's on just because the computer is powered on doesn't help me while individual indicators for fans and disks could. On the other hand, if I spent considerable time and skill dremelling-out a logo through the side panel, then perhaps the powerful light might actually add something to the experience.
If someone wants to reimplement some antiquated hardware for their own kicks that's fine. I've got dumb RS-232 terminals on my desks at both work and home, so I am not immune to this either. I don't expect others to find it cool either though, as there aren't that many people that grew up pre-GUI or in the BBS days in this hobby anymore, so I do it for myself, not for anyone else's approval.
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The things you learn re-inventing the wheel can be applied in various parts of your future projects.
It's like asking why solve a math problem? Obviously, to learn how to do math for the chance that you see a problem that you DON'T have an easy answer already available. Hell, that's what an entire engineering degree is. It's not "can you solve problem X" because problem X will almost never occur in real life in an isolated environment. The p
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> Hell, why have cars anything other than black, which should suffice for anybody?
You don't live in a hot, sunny place, do you? :-D
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Hell, why have cars anything other than black, which should suffice for anybody?
Ahem. I drive a stripped-model black Ford Ranger. It's about as equivalent a Ford to the Model T as was made in 2006.
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No, antique cars really aren't. If you don't believe me then I challenge you to drive a model-T on an expressway.
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A Model-T would serve my driving needs 200+ days a year without any significant change to my routines. It could probably serve me another 50-100 days a year if I'm willing to take a little longer to ge
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What would it cost to buy?
How much maintenance would it require?
Special fuels? Kind of oil? Required additives?
Suspension and handling? Comfort?
What would potholes do to it?
Now compare all of that to an older but still decent condition used modern car that is way easier to find and obtain.
Now why is the model T still useful?
Note.. I'm not arguing that it might not provide the owner with some form of enjoyment. I like all sorts of things that I do not consider ot be 'useful'.
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No, antique cars really aren't. If you don't believe me then I challenge you to drive a model-T on an expressway.
At least it's faster than a Tesla.
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Oh, sorry, I just double-checked, and the Tesla did just win the race :).
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It is still faster than this Tesla:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N... [wikipedia.org]
As he doesn't move around too much anymore.
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Now go kill your gramps because frankly he's outdated and society's resources could better be spent on someone younger.
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Same for me. But you could install a memory rack over the i/o rack in processor box and find a HDD controller instead of removable packet drives. It would give you an usable PDP-11 in a half-height 19-inch rack (Processor/memory, FDD and HDD in it, magtape controller). I fed my PDP-11 from a simple outlet while the electricians invented the special attachment.
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Nostalga. I used to have a beer fridge sitting inside of an old S/370 system cabinet. Sure it took up 20 times the space but it was still cool to look at in the garage.
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While people might wrap up their reasons in something with more authority or social support behind it, ultimately, most projects we do are 'because it is cool'.